Vahid,

I do not agree with the idea of having more signals. I know you like to have more signals to make some people happy but I am sure this is not what you want from the bottom of your heart because you do not believe on overtrading too and you are such a disciplined trader.

For me, even offering a buy-sell signal service has no meaning in general, because in trading, you can not find two signals with the same risk. Each trade setup, has a different risk. Like peoples' fingerprints that you can not find two people with the same fingerprint, you can not find two trade setups with the same risk level. Each position has its own pros and cons, if you take it or if you do not take it. BUT when you send a signal to the subscribers, for example you say BUY EUR-USD, they take it just because you say, while they do not know how much risk this trade setup has and if it has a higher risk than the other signals you already sent them or a lower risk. I strongly believe that you should not tell your subscribers BUY this or SELL that. You should show them the trade setups. Like what you did about USD-JPY in your last video. So everybody has to make his own decision. They should not take any position just because you say. I know there are some traders among the subscribers who do not do it, but I am sure most of them do.

You always say you want to help your clients to become independent traders. This is not the correct way, if you really want to do that. You are still teaching them BUT 99.99% of them will not become independent traders because although you show them the charts and your analysis, you still tell them BUY or SELL. They wait for you to tell them and if you do not tell them, they still wait. Making the decision is the last and most important stage in Forex trading and this is what you are doing for your subscribers and you DO NOT let them do it themselves.

THEY have to decide buy or sell, NOT you. If you decide for them, they will not become independent traders.

I preferred to open a new thread for my idea, because I really like to help. First you (as my dear friend) and then your clients because I know that you care about them a lot.

Hi "Joe" Trader,

Well! You are right. Generally, I agree with you. I should show them the way. The last decision should be made by themselves.

Really? so why you do something that you do not like to do? Who has forced you to do that?

Personally I do not take all the signals Vahid sends out. Also there have been a lot of times I have already entered the same trade when we do receive a signal(which makes me feel good). I also enter trades on my own method most of the time. Where I do gain advantage is when a signal is sent and I was not aware or even looking at that trade set up. This forces me to look at that pair and thus I most always learn something for this. Just like he has been talking lately in his videos about the different methods to see a trade set up is extremely helpful.

Fact is there is no perfect situation. You can be the most perfect teacher but that has nothing to do with his success at teaching. It's all in the students hands. You will have more average and poor students than good to excellent students. All you can do is make the information available and it is up to them what they do with it. You are right Joe Trader, many will not become independent traders but it is the same people that would not achieve this no matter what the teaching method is. One thing I am almost sure of though, the serious person who really does want to become a trader will not find a better website or classroom to learn in than Forexoma.

Bill

Bill,

This is really good. But I don't think that even 1% of the subscribers are like you.

Hi All

I certainly see everyones point of view and I do agree that sending the signals does not teach novices to "pull the trigger"
when they suspect they have a good setup.
Any thinking person would realise that Vahid may not do this forever and if he (novice) doesnt learn this he will be left to watch his money dwindle away a little more slowly because of Vahids teaching.
What Vahids signals do do,I believe, is make traders watch and analyse a trade with "real money" if you use a demo account any experienced trader will tell you that the psychology is totally different when your "hard earned" is on the line.
Another reason I like Vahid signals is that paying the subsciptions is easier for some trying to make their way in FX trading if they are
making the money to pay the subscription. I feel this is a win/win situation.
I feel the recent changes and the addition of video analysis will give the novice/struggling traders a first hand view of what is going though an experienced traders mind.
I personally find my own trade setups and when I get one the same from Vahid it validates that i am on the right track.
When I began I "pulled the trigger" too often and too early. i have learnt the value of patience from Vahid.

The traders who simply take the signals and do not learn from them are resigned to struggle.
The program (to me) is number one an education, number two (and a bonus) are the signals.

Keep it up Vahid.

Good trading to All

dave

Hello everyone.... Joe trader you have indeed spoken my mind on this issue.... I really enjoy this site and I must confess and always say it that: "almost everything I know, I learnt on this site".

I dont think I have said this but the truth is that the reason why I never subscribed to the buy/sell signal Vahid dishes out is simply because I want to be independent... My fears has always been that as soon as I start getting live signals I might loose focus of being a TRUE SLASHER (forex guru)... So what I do is simply trade with what I have learnt from Vahid and Kate's analysis and I act on my analysis on every trade.

Though I am less than a year on 4x but I am proud to say I make over 100 pips a week most times and and sometimes close to 100 pips, and this is without anybody's assistance... I know my discipline is still being built and my trading skills are improving by the day(all thanks to you guys)

Well in summary I agree with Joe trader on Vahid showing us his analysis but the buy/sell signal should come from us.... Lovely topic Joetrader.... Best Regards

Hi Joe

Your points are valid but I think that you and Vahid are very different people. He has chosen to spend time teaching others to trade forex and his site tagline "Earn while you learn" seems to encapsulate his aim very well.
It is true that many will simply subscribe and trade the signals without learning. I know from personal experience that there are some people who will always take the easy way no matter what you try to teach them. That's life. These people don't diminish the program in any way; they simply get stuck where they feel comfortable.

Others will learn something but never quite break the dependency. That is probably about self confidence and many of these might become independent in time, or when pushed by Vahid retiring!

Then there will be those who learn all they can and become truly independent traders. I suspect that these are the people that will give Vahid most joy.

I doubt that many of the new subscribers even know which category they will end up in.

Vahid is doing no harm with his program and he has certainly done me a LOT of good. I view him as a virtual mentor on the trading floor. Firstly he has explained to me how things work. Then he has shown me what to do by telling me what orders I can place and why. Now I am starting to make my own analysis and trade my own signals it as well as Vahids. He is available to compare notes with and to explain things to me as I start gaining the most valuable tool of all – experience.

All the best

Michael

It is not even two days that we have started the new generation of the signals and I am getting bombarded by tens of messages that what should we do with this positions, why this position is not triggered, why the other one is not doing good, why...why..why... ... ...?

It is too hard to work under such a condition.

You are right JoeTrader. Of course I was aware of all these problems that I could have. I think finally I will have to do what you say. I analyze the market lively. I show the forming trade setups, but I leave making the decisions to the traders. Whether they like to take any position or wait.

Yes. Show them the trade setups. Tell them what to do if what happens. Even tell them where is the best place to put the stop loss and targets. But do not say BUY this or SELL that. Show them the way, but don't push them to walk on the way. Let them do it on their own.

It's like a said before you are going to have more poor students than good ones. Vahid is being bombarded by the poor students I would guess. Vahid please do what makes you happy. No sense in you having undue stress over senseless expectations from senseless people.

Based on Vahid's original request for opinions, my understanding was that he would reveal other methods and strategies he uses to trade, and add the additional feature of using videos to teach and analyze the market. That has been implemented excellently. Where the idea of bombarding the members with buy/sell signals came from is the question. You cannot yield always to the dictates of members.

Trying to become all things to all people will always lead to problems. That is the route of a politician, and I do not recall Vahid ever running for office.

Forexoma must clearly define it purpose and those paying members must understand and agree to comply. The slogan "earn while you learn" must define clearly the "earn" part. For me the earning expectation from Forexoma was working fine, and it was never expected to be a cash cow, or even do much more than break even on the subscription. I have always personally expresssed my desire to become independent, and that is the prime objective. I did always state from the beginning that it would be good to have video showing how Vahid approaches a "blank chart". That he is now doing, and it is working well.

What is the Forexoma mission statement? Clearly define that and that will guide you when deciding what new decisions or changes should be made.

Just my thoughts.

Vincent

Hi Vahid,

I agree with the above comments that you shouldn't have to put up with unreasonable customers.

I must say though that I really like your signals. I work very long hours and therefore it's hard for me to regularly read the FLMA report when its released and focus on set ups. I normally read the report when I go home from work as my boss is really strict.

Whenver my phone bleeps with a signal message I quikcly log on to my brokers site place the trade with good money management and then go back to work. It has worked well for me.

Some may now classify me as only a signal seeker. Well thats not entirely true as I try to do my best to learn when I go home from work.
I am not one for many signals or few signals. I have full faith in your ability and know that you have lived by your rules and standards when making the decision on sending the signals.

I do realise that its not a perfect world and the best of traders have losing trades too and the best of horses loses races too and the best of sportsmen and women lose matches too. I think some of these demanding customers you have need to understand this and they need to think long term and stop getting all freaked out over one or two losing trades.

I hope you will just follow your heart and do what you believe is right and not allow impatient bad attitude customers take advantage of your kindness and generosity.

Alpesh

Hi JoeTrader,

I entirely agree with you. I was against changing something what was very good into something what we didn`t know. I`am not a professional trader as you are, but I see that things are going wrong.
When I see as every our pending order is triggered then market goes against our position and triggers stop loss I see happy traders who make tricks to take money from us and I know that we made the biggest mistake we could make. We changed something what had given 15% a month into something what is wrong, we changed quality into quantity. Now I am looking at EUR/USD chart and our next position will probably be triggered in few minutes.
The best solution in my opinion is to take time, maybe this system is not as bad as it looks at the moment. I hope we will be happy with it.

Hello Dear All,

I kind of expected this will become an issue - means having more signals means having more decisions to be made. I can't agree more with what Chillydog said about different type of students. The problem with signals is the same everywhere. It always gonna be a bunch (probably majority) of subscribers who have no idea what they are doing with trading apart from blindly clicking hitting sell/buy buttons. If they think that is all about the trading and somebody else will take a job for them the problem arises. As they are "signal dependent" most of them will be; either jumping from one signal service to another, bitching that the trade goes against them, lots of them won't follow money managment rules, lots of them will blow more than50% of their account value with a few trades and unfortunatley for Vahid they will come and cry on his shoulder. Vahid you should just send them reply, means I have a template for you:
"Dear Client these are not signal recommendations but trading ideas, please go and do your own math, please take any position you want. I can't tell you how many, I can't tell when to kill the loosing trade, I can't tell when to get out, I can't tell you if your feer is worse than your greed and inpatientce. Therefore all I can tell you is THINK, THINK and again THINK before you do anything. If this is too much for you probably will be better off by taking some other than FX activities."
I guarantee that once you startd sending this to everybody who is complaining and bombarding you with email will either start thinking on his/her own or give up and do something else than trading. This will take the pressure of your head Vahid, believe me. If people can't understand the general market philosophy and are here to run on your back only , being on your place I would do nothinhg more. Can they read new icon you have put: buy,sell,manage ? Maybe they can but surely they don't understand it. Tough tits

Myself I like the new signals idea. I can't stress more how I like your videos. These signals as Chillydog says for me are also to verify my own trade ideas and funny enough on many occassions I got them after I've done my own math and analysis. I don't stick to the stiff rule of waiting for the S/L to be hit, if I'm in a loosing trade i frequently kill it before hitting stop loss. I'm not frustrated about the fact that sometimes it can go in the direction I wanted later, so be it, there will be always another setup. I know there is a great unsettlement amongst "signal addicts" now cause few of signals hit the S/L, so what ??? If one had put 10% risk on each and has 30% account down, I say it's good it will help to learn quicker and decide if they have enough competence to deal with highly speculative market.
Keep on the good job Vahid and safe your time by completetely ignoring these emails.

Traderany,
I have a simple question for you to answer:

How did you extrapolate results from 2 days of trading and compare it with a couple of months History ?

I presume one should have at least one month data to compare with a couple of months data (still there could be bias).
Trading is a long term bussines I think you know it. There is no obligation to take every single signal anyway.
Moreover there is no guarantee they will be turn into a fortune in a matter of one week.

Take it easy Mate, you are panicking a bit. You mention every pending order I'm sure you forgot about lets say AUS/USD trade or AUS/CHF which should be in quite profit by now.
Mareket will go anywhere it wants to, for sure not in Vahid's, mine or your direction. However it may choose one of us
There is no hidden plot against you or us taking signals, there is thing called market and if you want to stay in the bussines you have to learn to live with it.
Sorry for the "mentoring" tone but you look like need some reassurance

Hi Bill,

Yes, I really have decided to do that. Enough is enough.

Hi Alpesh,

I know what you mean. We have some clients like you. They work full time and they still like to take the positions while a trade setup forms. There is nothing wrong with this. I was a part time trader for such a long time too. The problem is something that Joe says about the risk level of each trade is absolutely true. You can never find two trade setups with the same risk and reward potential. This is where the personal decision comes. While I may like to take a position that has a higher risk, you may not like it. So someone has to inform you that how risky a signal is. But unfortunately there is no way to measure the risk of a position. So when I send you a signal and you are at work, I can not tell you how risky the position that you are taking is, because you can not read the analysis and you can not watch the video. What Joe is trying to say is that subscribers should not trade like that.

USD-JPY is a good example that Joe also used it. We had a buy signal on the weekly chart which is still strong because the current weekly candle is not closed yet. At the same time we had a buy signal on 4hrs chart, but we also had a MACD Divergence. On one of the videos, I mentioned all of these things. As you saw, market followed the MACD Divergence and broke below the support line. If we had taken a long position based on the weekly signal and the buy signal we had above the uptrend support line on the 4hrs chart, our stop loss would be triggered. If we had rushed and took a short position because of the MACD Divergence, it would work. However, there are also many other cases the there is a MACD Divergence, but market doesn't go down and it follows the bigger time frames direction.

When it comes to this stage, it is all the matter of taking the risk and making the final decision. This is something that you have to do and nobody should do it for the others.

Something that Joe says is absolutely true. I should show you the forming trade setup and also I should mention the risks that each position may have. Then you should decide on your own. But when I say "Buy USD-JPY", you buy while you are not aware of the risks.

Hi Jarek,

1. Read carefully, what I wrote? - "I hope we will be happy with it."

2. Vahid (if I remember) wrote that someone complained on another forum that Vahid didn`t send us signals. - I wrote "(...) but I see that things are going wrong". Vahid has changed system (that was one reason why Vahid changed system) because one, two or more members of FLMA had complained that he hadn`t sent them signals for one weak, if so - in my opinion things are going wrong.

3. If you want to use Vahid`s system in future as an independent trader the best solution for you is to follow every signal Vahid sends. Why? That is the best way to penetrate Vahid`s mind to think then to trade the same.

4. Now we don`t know if this system is good or not, but there is no worth studying system if it doesn`t work properly. We know that the system we used last year was very good, so wise trader should stick in it. Greedy is not good for traders, Vahid wrote fantastik articel about it.