I Need Your Opinion TOO

JoeTrader · **Joined:** Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:20 am **Posts:** 58

traderany wrote:

Hi JoeTrader,

I entirely agree with you. I was against changing something what was very good into something what we didn`t know. I`am not a professional trader as you are, but I see that things are going wrong.
When I see as every our pending order is triggered then market goes against our position and triggers stop loss I see happy traders who make tricks to take money from us and I know that we made the biggest mistake we could make. We changed something what had given 15% a month into something what is wrong, we changed quality into quantity. Now I am looking at EUR/USD chart and our next position will probably be triggered in few minutes.
The best solution in my opinion is to take time, maybe this system is not as bad as it looks at the moment. I hope we will be happy with it.

Hi Any,

But I am against sending the signals in general. I am sure Vahid knows what he is doing and just a few bad trades doesn't mean that a system doesn't work. But I am against the idea of sending the signals. What I say is:
1- Vahid should show you the forming trade setups.
2. He can even tell you about the stop loss and target positions.
3. He should mentioned the pros and cons of the forming trade setups and its risk level.
4. Finally he should tell you when to take the position. For example at the close of this and that candle on this and that time frame. Something like that.

Then it is only you who should make your decision, based on the risks and pros and cons that the trade setup has.

But when Vahid say buy this and sell that, most traders take it just because Vahid is saying so. This is a poison for traders.

traderany · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:18 pm

pakiestra wrote:

traderany wrote:

Hi JoeTrader,

I entirely agree with you. I was against changing something what was very good into something what we didn`t know. I`am not a professional trader as you are, but I see that things are going wrong.
When I see as every our pending order is triggered then market goes against our position

Take it easy Mate, you are panicking a bit. You mention every pending order I'm sure you forgot about lets say AUS/USD trade or AUS/CHF which should be in quite profit by now. :roll:

Mareket will go anywhere it wants to, for sure not in Vahid's, mine or your direction. However it may choose one of us :mrgreen:

There is no hidden plot against you or us taking signals, there is thing called market and if you want to stay in the bussines you have to learn to live with it.
Sorry for the "mentoring" tone but you look like need some reassurance

Hi Jarek,

There were no AUS/USD and AUS/CHF signals. If I remember AUD/CHF was not a pending order. AUD/USD gave profits - my mistake - sorry, I should write - almost every pending order.

Michael · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:27 pm

Vahid

Perhaps you spent too much time recently finding out what the subscribers want from your service and not enough time looking at what you want from it.

I have followed your postings since Weboma.com and would guess that you have a strong drive to educate and also to share your success with others that they may benefit too. Perhaps you should take some time to decide what (if anything) you want to do and how it will be presented. Then you can move forward from there.

Whatever happens I wish you and all here well.

Michael

Keith · **Joined:** Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:38 am **Posts:** 692

I must admit that I am quite surprised at the increase in signals.
If these are all set-ups that Vahid himself is trading, then I don't really see a problem. If they are all the same quality as his previous set-ups, then this is good for those members that trade his signals.
I haven't caught up with all the videos yet as they take a long time to download, but I assume that there is related analysis for all the trades. As the membership increases, unfortunately the number without a clue what they are doing will also increase.
Vahid always stresses that members should check the analysis before taking a trade and if they are incapable of understanding the reasons behind a set - up, they should not be trading!
If these members trade signals blindly, then what questions can they possibly have that necessitates bombarding Vahid with PMs? Surely they are capable of setting up a pending order? If not - again, they should not be trading!

Back to the original topic. Some have posted the phrase "sacrificing quality for quantity". Well I believe that Vahid is a genuine person and so I would hope that he is not sacrificing quality, but maintaining the same quality, but with more quantity

However, it does look like this change will cause problems for Vahid, due to some members inexperience and I would like to remind these members that there is only so much Vahid to go round, there are not enough hours in the day for him to address every member's issue. If you don't understand something, then post your questions in the forum (without mentioning details of current trades) as I am sure that many are PM-ing Vahid with the same questions.

Forexoma · **Joined:** Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:07 pm **Posts:** 1250

pakiestra wrote:

Hello Dear All,

I kind of expected this will become an issue - means having more signals means having more decisions to be made. I can't agree more with what Chillydog said about different type of students. The problem with signals is the same everywhere. It always gonna be a bunch (probably majority) of subscribers who have no idea what they are doing with trading apart from blindly clicking hitting sell/buy buttons. If they think that is all about the trading and somebody else will take a job for them the problem arises. As they are "signal dependent" most of them will be; either jumping from one signal service to another, bitching that the trade goes against them, lots of them won't follow money managment rules, lots of them will blow more than50% of their account value with a few trades and unfortunatley for Vahid they will come and cry on his shoulder. Vahid you should just send them reply, means I have a template for you:
"Dear Client these are not signal recommendations but trading ideas, please go and do your own math, please take any position you want. I can't tell you how many, I can't tell when to kill the loosing trade, I can't tell when to get out, I can't tell you if your feer is worse than your greed and inpatientce. Therefore all I can tell you is THINK, THINK and again THINK before you do anything. If this is too much for you probably will be better off by taking some other than FX activities."
I guarantee that once you startd sending this to everybody who is complaining and bombarding you with email will either start thinking on his/her own or give up and do something else than trading. This will take the pressure of your head Vahid, believe me. If people can't understand the general market philosophy and are here to run on your back only , being on your place I would do nothinhg more. Can they read new icon you have put: buy,sell,manage ? Maybe they can but surely they don't understand it. Tough tits

Myself I like the new signals idea. I can't stress more how I like your videos. These signals as Chillydog says for me are also to verify my own trade ideas and funny enough on many occassions I got them after I've done my own math and analysis. I don't stick to the stiff rule of waiting for the S/L to be hit, if I'm in a loosing trade i frequently kill it before hitting stop loss. I'm not frustrated about the fact that sometimes it can go in the direction I wanted later, so be it, there will be always another setup. I know there is a great unsettlement amongst "signal addicts" now cause few of signals hit the S/L, so what ??? If one had put 10% risk on each and has 30% account down, I say it's good it will help to learn quicker and decide if they have enough competence to deal with highly speculative market.
Keep on the good job Vahid and safe your time by completetely ignoring these emails.

Hi Jarek,

Thanks for your comment on this issue.

You are absolutely right. I should do two things. I have to change the website home page and also the Live Market Analysis Program pages to prevent those who only look for signals. I must mention on the website that it is an educational program, but the difference is that it works on the live market and so members can also trade while they learn. This is the meaning of "Earn While You Learn".

The other thing that I have to do is following JoeTrader's advice. I must stop saying buy... sell... . I should show the forming trade setups and explain everything about them, but then I let the traders to make their own decision.

Keith · **Joined:** Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:38 am **Posts:** 692

traderany wrote:

pakiestra wrote:

traderany wrote:

Hi JoeTrader,

I entirely agree with you. I was against changing something what was very good into something what we didn`t know. I`am not a professional trader as you are, but I see that things are going wrong.
When I see as every our pending order is triggered then market goes against our position

Take it easy Mate, you are panicking a bit. You mention every pending order I'm sure you forgot about lets say AUS/USD trade or AUS/CHF which should be in quite profit by now. :roll:

Mareket will go anywhere it wants to, for sure not in Vahid's, mine or your direction. However it may choose one of us :mrgreen:

There is no hidden plot against you or us taking signals, there is thing called market and if you want to stay in the bussines you have to learn to live with it.
Sorry for the "mentoring" tone but you look like need some reassurance

Hi Jarek,

There were no AUS/USD and AUS/CHF signals. If I remember AUD/CHF was not a pending order. AUD/USD gave profits - my mistake - sorry, I should write - almost every pending order.

I don't quite understand ??
There were AUS/USD and AUS/CHF signals.
AUS/USD was a pending order and AUS/CHF was for immediate execution. Both hit target 2

traderany · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:58 pm

Keith wrote:

traderany wrote:

pakiestra wrote:

traderany wrote:

Hi JoeTrader,

I entirely agree with you. I was against changing something what was very good into something what we didn`t know. I`am not a professional trader as you are, but I see that things are going wrong.
When I see as every our pending order is triggered then market goes against our position

Take it easy Mate, you are panicking a bit. You mention every pending order I'm sure you forgot about lets say AUS/USD trade or AUS/CHF which should be in quite profit by now. :roll:

Mareket will go anywhere it wants to, for sure not in Vahid's, mine or your direction. However it may choose one of us :mrgreen:

There is no hidden plot against you or us taking signals, there is thing called market and if you want to stay in the bussines you have to learn to live with it.
Sorry for the "mentoring" tone but you look like need some reassurance

Hi Jarek,

There were no AUS/USD and AUS/CHF signals. If I remember AUD/CHF was not a pending order. AUD/USD gave profits - my mistake - sorry, I should write - almost every pending order.

I don't quite understand ??
There were AUS/USD and AUS/CHF signals.
AUS/USD was a pending order and AUS/CHF was for immediate execution. Both hit target 2

Hi,

1.There were no AUS/USD and AUS/CHF signals.

2.I wrote about pending orders only. Don`t you see the difference?

Forexoma · **Joined:** Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:07 pm **Posts:** 1250

Michael wrote:

Vahid

Perhaps you spent too much time recently finding out what the subscribers want from your service and not enough time looking at what you want from it.

I have followed your postings since Weboma.com and would guess that you have a strong drive to educate and also to share your success with others that they may benefit too. Perhaps you should take some time to decide what (if anything) you want to do and how it will be presented. Then you can move forward from there.

Whatever happens I wish you and all here well.

Michael

Hi Michael,

You are right. I always wanted to have an educational program that helps people to trade while they also learn. I hated to have a signal program, but I was somehow pushed to make it when we started SirForex and then I followed the same way when I moved to Forexoma.

Two years ago (or 3 years I am not sure) that I started posting on weboma, I merely analyzed the market and showed the market direction and forming trade setups. I was used to make people ready for the trade setups and leave the rest to them. People were really happy, because they could trade while they were also learning.

traderany · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:07 pm

Keith wrote:

traderany wrote:

pakiestra wrote:

traderany wrote:

Hi JoeTrader,

I entirely agree with you. I was against changing something what was very good into something what we didn`t know. I`am not a professional trader as you are, but I see that things are going wrong.
When I see as every our pending order is triggered then market goes against our position

Take it easy Mate, you are panicking a bit. You mention every pending order I'm sure you forgot about lets say AUS/USD trade or AUS/CHF which should be in quite profit by now. :roll:

Mareket will go anywhere it wants to, for sure not in Vahid's, mine or your direction. However it may choose one of us :mrgreen:

There is no hidden plot against you or us taking signals, there is thing called market and if you want to stay in the bussines you have to learn to live with it.
Sorry for the "mentoring" tone but you look like need some reassurance

Hi Jarek,

There were no AUS/USD and AUS/CHF signals. If I remember AUD/CHF was not a pending order. AUD/USD gave profits - my mistake - sorry, I should write - almost every pending order.

I don't quite understand ??
There were AUS/USD and AUS/CHF signals.
AUS/USD was a pending order and AUS/CHF was for immediate execution. Both hit target 2

Hi Keith,

Sorry this was for Jarek

Should be AUD/ not AUS/

pakiestra · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:10 pm

Ok Traderany, it's ok

Just wanted to highlight to you that you managed to contradict yourself in one sentence:

"Now we don`t know if this system is good or not, but there is no worth studying system if it doesn`t work properly. "

so I presume after two days you can say how the system is doing. A And then again you contraidicting yourself say in another post saying
1. Read carefully, what I wrote? - "I hope we will be happy with it."

Anyway it's not aimed at you as a person , is to highlight that you just contradicting yourself here therefore it's hard to guess what is your true opinion.

Please don't take personally but I think it's good when one mantains some logic and consistency in giving opinions.
Peace and regards
Jarek

pakiestra · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:24 pm

"Hi,

1.There were no AUS/USD and AUS/CHF signals.

2.I wrote about pending orders only. Don`t you see the difference"

Hi Any,
I know now, :idea:

I might not be the sharpest pencil in the pot so maybe that's why I can't seen the difference between signals of instant execution (previosuly the only one availabe on Forexoma) and a signal of pending order(recently added), especially both were sent by email.
But anyway it doesn't matter much if you write AUS or AUD everybody will know that one says either Aussie (nick name for Australian dollar) or AUD - Australian dollar. However I may be dead wrong, so the best one to ask is somebody living "down under"

owenglee · **Joined:** Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:23 pm **Posts:** 29

Vahid,you are the expert here and as such it is ultimately up to you to decide where you want to take this company of yours. I personally like the idea of a few more signals per week, but only if the quality of the signals are consistent with the high standards that you have already established.I like the forexoma site as it is truly an earn while you learn program. As a relatively new trader I do enjoy and appreciate both the "earn" and the "learn" aspect of your service. In the end you will have to do what you think is best for you and your company.

Owen.

Forexoma · **Joined:** Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:07 pm **Posts:** 1250

owenglee wrote:

Vahid,you are the expert here and as such it is ultimately up to you to decide where you want to take this company of yours. I personally like the idea of a few more signals per week, but only if the quality of the signals are consistent with the high standards that you have already established.I like the forexoma site as it is truly an earn while you learn program. As a relatively new trader I do enjoy and appreciate both the "earn" and the "learn" aspect of your service. In the end you will have to do what you think is best for you and your company.

Owen.

Thank you Owen. I have to think about it seriously.

aquiagora · **Joined:** Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:11 pm **Posts:** 103

Hi Joe,

You make valid points and no one can refute your argument that simply following signals is not the correct way to becoming an independent trader.
Just how many subscribers are just waiting to be "told" when and what to trade is not clear and even whether or not they want to become independent traders.

In any event Vahid has always made it clear that he is not providing a signals service.

I am a little surprised by the low number of votes cast so far - 5 for, 4 against.

Hi Vahid,

As FLMA is a living entity and nothing here is cast in stone, as an experiment you could for a certain period consider to stop giving signals (neither execution nor pending orders) and see how it goes.
I know this would not be welcomed by those who prefer to have the signals included because of their circumstances and/or as part of their own learning process.

Joe Trader's four points in his post to traderany could be used as a basis:
1- Vahid should show you the forming trade setups.
2. He can even tell you about the stop loss and target positions.
3. He should mentioned the pros and cons of the forming trade setups and its risk level.
4. Finally he should tell you when to take the position. For example at the close of this and that candle on this and that time frame. Something like that.

Of course, in the end you are the one to decide what changes should be made.

Regards,
aquiagora

Forexoma · **Joined:** Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:07 pm **Posts:** 1250

aquiagora wrote:

Hi Vahid,

As FLMA is a living entity and nothing here is cast in stone...

Thank you Aquiagora.

pakiestra · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:58 pm

Vahid wrote:

....The other thing that I have to do is following JoeTrader's advice. I must stop saying buy... sell... . I should show the forming trade setups and explain everything about them, but then I let the traders to make their own decision.

Hi Vahid,

I'm not by any means an experienced trader, I'm not even trading full time but I'm studying and learning the market behaviour all the time for last 2 years (I'm holding a full time job so it's not so easy). As with every activity which supposed to bring a sound income one has to accept at least three basic:
1.there are no shortcuts and no way you can learn things in one night/week/month - everything needs experience and experience is a function of intensity
How long does it take to become a successful neurosurgeon and earn 7 digit yearly income for instance ?
2.how much does it cost to become one ? a few bucks ?
3.nobody can show you how to become the one you want to be you have find your way
I'm sure one can cite more that type of questions, it's not a point.
The point is rightly highlighted by Joe Trader, by sending signals with commands BUY/SELL you are exposing yourself to the risk of people without a common sense off-loading and taking on You their frustrations "becasue it didn't work" being accused of scam etc. I suspect that can really get on you especially your intentions are the opposite. Therefore Joe's idea is really looking like a remedy.
You are the boss and will decide about the shape and future of Forexoma. I would only like to ask you not to give up on sharing your knowledge and experience as these videos revealed more knowledge about the market than I have learnt in years. I hope I will be able to watch them more, this is what keeps me here. Well you may have less clients after it but I tell you what, this is going to be only a temporary drop cause your service will speak on itself and with time atract more people serious about the trading. Unfortunately there is no way you can force all people to learn and become independent in their thinking.

elmicroman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:15 pm

Hello everyone,

First of all, I totally agree with Joe.

When I first came here I was expecting an educational service. Stating the obvious (at least with the most), education is related with learning. To me (I'm a teacher), there's no learning if there's no chance to apply the things learned.

And, of course, I have received exactly what I've expected: a great educational service that has been really useful in my trading style.

I don't place trades based on the signals (not in my real account). I just try to make sense of them: sometimes I received an answer from Vahid's analysis; sometimes I can see the reasoning behind it; sometimes I can't. But this is learning to me.

I follow Vahid's analysis everyday. And I make notes. And I try to integrate my new learnings with my own personal trading strategy. Sometimes a can do that; sometimes I can't.

I do my personal analysis everyday. And I try to include Vahid's reasoning before he posts his own. Sometimes I agree; sometimes I don't.

To me, to follow signals is not the way to achieve expertise. There's no learning involved.

Following signals is more related to another extraordinary skill: be able to copy/paste Vahid's levels and push the buy/sell button (no sarcasm intended). But there's no reasoning, no critical thinking at all in that particular activity. That's the way a trainer should train monkeys, not perfectly capable humans (sarcasm intended). That is just repetition; and, if we call that "learning", it's a very different level of it.

If there are less or more signals (or not at all) I'm just fine.

There's a comic paradox in the advice but, what the hell, I will say that too: Vahid, please do what you want to do.

If somebody doesn't like it, it's OK. There are so many signal services out there that they won't be depressed at all (maybe they will after they blow their account, but that's another story).

As there are some people here (I do think that we represent more than 1%, btw

) who want to learn from Vahid, we'll stay here with no doubt.

Stay well.

Forexoma · **Joined:** Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:07 pm **Posts:** 1250

pakiestra wrote:

Vahid wrote:

....The other thing that I have to do is following JoeTrader's advice. I must stop saying buy... sell... . I should show the forming trade setups and explain everything about them, but then I let the traders to make their own decision.

Hi Vahid,

I'm not by any means an experienced trader, I'm not even trading full time but I'm studying and learning the market behaviour all the time for last 2 years (I'm holding a full time job so it's not so easy). As with every activity which supposed to bring a sound income one has to accept at least three basic:
1.there are no shortcuts and no way you can learn things in one night/week/month - everything needs experience and experience is a function of intensity
How long does it take to become a successful neurosurgeon and earn 7 digit yearly income for instance ?
2.how much does it cost to become one ? a few bucks ?
3.nobody can show you how to become the one you want to be you have find your way
I'm sure one can cite more that type of questions, it's not a point.
The point is rightly highlighted by Joe Trader, by sending signals with commands BUY/SELL you are exposing yourself to the risk of people without a common sense off-loading and taking on You their frustrations "becasue it didn't work" being accused of scam etc. I suspect that can really get on you especially your intentions are the opposite. Therefore Joe's idea is really looking like a remedy.
You are the boss and will decide about the shape and future of Forexoma. I would only like to ask you not to give up on sharing your knowledge and experience as these videos revealed more knowledge about the market than I have learnt in years. I hope I will be able to watch them more, this is what keeps me here. Well you may have less clients after it but I tell you what, this is going to be only a temporary drop cause your service will speak on itself and with time atract more people serious about the trading. Unfortunately there is no way you can force all people to learn and become independent in their thinking.

Hi Jarek,

It is not only you who learns something here. I have learned a lot from subscribers like you, Bill, JoeTrader, Jim, Michael, Keith and... ... ... ...

So I appreciate your support and presence here on Forexoma.com. Thanks a lot.

Believe it or not, but I do not care about the number of members. As you may have noticed sometimes I even do something to make the number of members limited. If you check the website, you will see that I have designed the pages in the way that people know what kind of program they are joining and so they should not expect too many signals. I am working on it more to make it even more disappointing for those who look for a signal service or those who only heard that Forex makes money.

I can always make money. I have a lot of sources of income. However, unlike some of my friends who started working almost at the same time with me, I do not live in a $5m palace. We have a very small life with very limited expenses. The reason is that I follow some rules that most others know you stupid if you follow, but I have my own life style. While I was happy with $20k per months, my friends were making $200k through the same business, just because I have some red lines in my life that I can never ignore. I do not want to go to details because this is a public environment and I do not like to talk about these things in public.

Anyway! Something that I do care about is doing something that helps people, but at the same time I do not like to be accused of anything that I am not. Unfortunately most people do not have the required conditions to become a forex trader and these people are among those who rush to accuse the others when their expectations are not met. So far they have caused me to make some changes on the program. It is a tough condition. You know that you are doing good, but you have to change your right way to prevent some remarks.

Forexoma · **Joined:** Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:07 pm **Posts:** 1250

elmicroman wrote:

Hello everyone,

First of all, I totally agree with Joe.

When I first came here I was expecting an educational service. ...

Thank you my friend

pakiestra · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:07 pm

Vahid wrote:

Hi Jarek,

It is not only you who learns something here. I have learned a lot from subscribers like you, Bill, JoeTrader, Jim, Michael, Keith and... ... ... ...
So I appreciate your support and presence here on Forexoma.com. Thanks a lot.

You are very very kind person Vahid and I feel privileged to be counted together with the Guys you mentioned above

This is forcing me to learn and explore even more to deserve such a respect from you (as at the moment I think I'm miles and miles away from somebody who is experienced forex trader)

Vahid wrote:

The reason is that I follow some rules that most others know you stupid if you follow, but I have my own life style. While I was happy with $20k per months, my friends were making $200k through the same business, just because I have some red lines in my life that I can never ignore. I do not want to go to details because this is a public environment and I do not like to talk about these things in public.

Your generosity and modesty speaks for itself, that can be read between lines of what you post, say and do.
You look like following the similar rules I was taught by my grandfather. One of them was he kept telling me (before he passed away) : "Please live your life in a way that nobody will have to cry because of what have you done to them" . Ok I have to stop being so pompous.

Vahid wrote:

Anyway! Something that I do care about is doing something that helps people, but at the same time I do not like to be accused of anything that I am not. Unfortunately most people do not have the required conditions to become a forex trader and these people are among those who rush to accuse the others when their expectations are not met.
So far they have caused me to make some changes on the program. It is a tough condition. You know that you are doing good, but you have to change your right way to prevent some remarks.

So looks like Joe Trader was right in one of his first posts, you were pushed by sensless people to do things against yourself.
Do you know what Vahid ?
My everyday job is to help people as well (in other that trading respects). During all these years I have noticed that some of them (no matter what you do nor say to them) will just not be able to recognise that first of all they have to help themselves in understanding one thing: they are RESPONSIBLE for their actions and NOBODY (for any price) will take this responsibility from them. Tough tits :lol:

so to say.
All my regards Vahid

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